On July 1st 1948 at Conway Hall, D. Fenwick for the S.P.G.B. debated with R. Tearse for the Revolutionary Communist Party. 



In his opening half-hour Fenwick carefully defined Capitalism and Socialism in the usual Marxian terms and argued that the existence in Russia of a propertyless working class living by selling its labour-power for wages, and producing commodities for sale on the market shows that it is not Socialism but a form of State Capitalism. Admittedly it had not developed exactly on the lines of capitalism in the Western countries. Trotsky in “The Revolution Betrayed” had asserted that the term “State Capitalism” is meaningless, but certainly Lenin did not think so for in his “The Chief Task of Our Times” he had argued that State Capitalism would be a step forward for industrially backward Russia. The contrasts of riches and poverty in Russia and the growth of bondholding are features of Capitalism not Socialism. What is the interest paid to the bondholders if not surplus value resulting from the exploitation of the workers? Fenwick emphasised that the achievement of Socialism presupposes a socialist working class, it cannot he imposed by a dictatorship.



R. Tearse in reply claimed that the S.P.G.B. is wrong in describing the 1917 revolution as a bourgeois revolution. It would be a peculiar capitalist revolution that expropriates the capitalists. The S.P.G.B. idea of all the workers moving together towards Socialism is wishful thinking, and the notion of Capitalism and Socialism being divided by a sort of Chinese Wall is erroneous. In the introduction to “Civil War in France” Engels had conceived of a whole new generation after the working class seizure of power before it would be possible to have fully-fledged Socialism. The R.C.P. never claimed that Socialism exists in Russia. Marx and Engels, in the Communist Manifesto, when they wrote of revolutionary measures such as steeply-graduated income tax, and the centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, obviously envisaged the continuance of the wages system and commodity production in the transition period after the workers had gained power. The first essential step for the workers is to secure the centralisation of large-scale industry in the hands of the State as had been done in Russia. Inequality exists but this does not prove the existence of Capitalism. The rich in Russia are the artists and writers but in the S.P.G.B. pamphlet “Socialism” it is claimed that these better-paid workers are still members of the working class.



Bondholding is a very small feature in relation to the whole economy. The bondholder does not control undertakings. The bureaucracy may receive parasitic income from the exploitation of the working class but accumulation of capital through the individual capitalist and the resulting capitalist crises of boom and slump do not exist in Russia. What social group constitutes the capitalist class in Russia? He challenged Fenwick to answer. As regards the R.C.P.’s willingness to support Russia in war, this is justified because there you have a progressive economy based on the nationalisation of the whole economy.



In further contributions to the debate Fenwick referred to Marx’s statement of the possibility of the workers overthrowing the bourgeoisie and of this merely serving the development of the bourgeois revolution itself as happened in France in 1794 (quoted in “State and Socialist Revolution” by Martov). He also quoted from “Socialism, Utopian, and Scientific” where Engels showed that the nationalisation of industries does not lessen their capitalist nature. Russia was in fact affected by the 1931 crisis like other countries. He referred to the change in the law which allows holders of State bonds in Russia to bequeath them to their heirs and quoted Trotsky’s statement in “Revolution Betrayed” that if any such development occurred it would be a victory for the bureaucracy and would mean their conversion into a new ruling class. The measures at the end of Section II of the Communist Manifesto, showed that at that time the immediate establishment of Socialism after the capture of power was not entertained by Marx or Engels; but industry and knowledge had undergone great development since then. In 1872 Engels had said that the passage in question would have been very differently worded under the different conditions existing at the later date.



R. Tearse repeated his argument that wholesale nationalisation is different in kind from the nationalisation of sectors of industry as in this country. In Russia nationalisation would form the basis of Socialism after the transition period. The 1931 crisis did not affect Russia in the fundamental way it affected other countries. It was not the result of the accumulation of capital in the hands of private capitalists. As regards the quotation from “Socialism, Utopian and Scientific” about the capitalist nature of nationalised industries, it should not be overlooked that in the very next sentence Engels argued that though the capitalist relation is not done away with it is “brought to a head, it topples over.”



In Russia industry as a whole has been taken over by the State and the anarchy of private appropriation of surplus value does not exist. The defeat of Russia in war would be a defeat for the working class and a further lease of life for capitalism. There must be a transition period between capitalism and socialism and during this period capital and wages would exist but this alone does not make it capitalism. Though in 1872 Engels had said he and Marx would not in the changed conditions lay special stress on the measures proposed in the Communist Manifesto Engels never said the measures were wrong and he continued to call them revolutionary measures.



The debate was well-attended and the audience showed the closest attention to the by no means simple clash of argument. A collection of £10 15s. was taken up.



Clifford Groves,

General Secretary.

Kathleen Henehan, a Resolution Foundation policy analyst said, ““Access to new credit can be hugely beneficial for low-income families, but with many also reporting that they have no savings to fall back on, these high debt repayment pressures are a sign of stretched living standards. The risk is that this leaves them far too exposed to future financial shocks, reinforcing the need for policy makers to focus on the living standards of those on low and middle incomes.”



https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/jan/15/sharp-rise-in-uk-consumer-debt-among-less-well-off-thinktank-warns

The English Longitudinal Study of Ageing and the US Health and Retirement Study

both found that while life expectancy is a useful indicator of health, the quality of life as we age is crucial to determining our health. 

In contrast, the proportion of life expected to be spent in good health in the UK has decreased between 2009-11 and 2016-18, from 79.9% to 79.5% for males and from 77.4% to 76.7% for females.



https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/15/being-wealthy-adds-nine-years-to-life-expectancy-says-study

World hunger exists in spite of an abundance of food . Therefore increased food production is no solution. The problem is that many people are too poor to buy readily available food. Is that too difficult to comprehend? For many people, even those keenly interested in the environment, it appears so. Studies pointing to ecological limits to sustain people are often expressed in terms of carrying capacity but these can be different, based on the way we consume resources etc so it is hard to say for sure what over population means let alone if we are at some threshold, below, or above it. There are enough resources to sustain even a  larger population than we currently have. Environmentalist activists who have a genuine altruistic nature and concerns for people and the environment follow the Malthusian principles that simple numbers matter which assumes that if poverty exists it must be because of overpopulation, which is the fault of those people  and their bed-fellows are those who use these same figures for racist purposes—to discriminate against immigrants, to in essence promote eugenics, social Darwinism and so on with such solutions include following draconian population reduction policies, increasing restrictive immigration policies and so on.



People are hungry because they cannot afford food, not because the population is growing so fast that food is becoming scarce. Capitalist economics has led to immense poverty and hunger, and it has not been food scarcity due to over population the cause of hunger around the world. When weighing the impacts on demands by populations versus the way large chemical companies and industrial agricultural businesses promote certain types of agricultural practices, and the serious threat of top soil loss (which will affect yields in the future, where large populations could feel an additional burden), it is less certain that populations and over population is the main cause. In other words, it is a political problem, not a shortage problem. Most hungry populations live in countries that have food surpluses rather than deficits. In fact, it is interesting to note that criticism of Malthusian argumant point out how that it is based on class distinctions, looking at the poor as the cause of the problems.

High mortality balanced by a high birth rate led to stable populations but now we have decreasing death rates in poorer countries, due to medical enhancements for child survival, better nutrition, improved sanitation etc led to population increases and that is leading to a drop in fertility rates and family sizes. Religious beliefs that promote large families and lack of education for women are weakening.



For socialists population numbers are a concern as is nvironmental degradation a concern. But the idea to blame environmental degradation on over population and accused the poor of the problems, and not the effects of the economic system that are more damaging leads to inappropriate suggestions on how to deal with the issue. Poverty clearly is related to colonialism and the expansion of the capitalist world economy.

To attack high birth rates without attacking the causes of poverty and the disproportionate powerlessness of people is fruitless. It is a tragic diversion.



Populations no doubt are large in many countries, and demands on resources are obviously large which affect and put stress on the environment. But the claim that overpopulation is the major cause of environmental degradation accurate? While populations can burden the environment, it is the relative impact of population numbers alone versus why and how resource are used that determine the ecological consequences.



Many nations needlessly expend labor, resources, and materials  to support their militaries and are locked into a wasteful system of production and distribution.



How land is used can have enormous impacts on the environment and its sustainability.  Land ownership has become more concentrated in the hands of larger companies, larger agribusinesses and so on which increases hunger and drives rural workers out of jobs. It leads to an increase in  migration as people move to the cities or different countries in hope for a better chance. These economic policies that are based less on people’s sharing and development, but more on acquiring wealth and profit lead to additional stress on the larger cities to provide for more people. It also results in more slum areas, health problems and so on. Many easily conclude that by just looking at the cities that we have overpopulation in the world. While the cities are no doubt facing problems of over population, a variety of political and economic circumstances are leading to such conditions and looking only at cities to determine if the planet is over populated misses out these factors.

International trade agreements result in luxuries turned into necessities. Some people, being pushed off their own lands, will move to less arable land or into forests in the hope to farm that, which may conflict with wildlife. Many nature reserves are likewisee encroached upon, not by choice but necessity. Land ownership for the poor provides mechanisms to ensure sustainable farming.



The “science” of ecological limits is often used to conclude that population growth and numbers are the major cause of environmental degradation.The carrying capacity, also known as the ecological footprint is frequently cited by environmentalists. The problem about the theory of carrying capacity is that our capacity for culture and symbolic thought enables us constantly to alter our diets and the way we exploit the environment for food. … Human beings are capable of constantly changing the rules of subsistence by altering their resource base. In fact, estimates on the Earth’s carrying capacity vary widely. It is consequently difficult if not impossible to predict when our ability to provide for additional people will end, if ever. Socialists declare that how we organize ourselves to make use of resources — i.e. our political and economic choices — is the important aspect. What reason we make use of resources is the vital issue. How we interact with each other in all facets of human activitiesare often not factored in by over-populationists. By making this assumption that only population levels are the root cause, rather than a symptom it results in the promotion of ineffective policies, and blaming the victims leaving unaddressed the underlying causes. More people will be poor. More people will go hungry.

“Every day at Shelter we see the toll that expensive, unstable or poor-quality private renting can take on people’s lives and their health,” said Andrea Deakin, the charity’s emergency helpline manager. “We know how easy it can be to lose hope and feel overwhelmed by these worries, but our message is that you do not have to face them alone.”



Dani Wijesinghe, an organiser for the Bristol branch of the community union Acorn, said: “It is the rule rather than the exception [for tenants she represents] to be experiencing illness: most commonly anxiety, depression, and respiratory conditions.”



Polly Neate, Shelter’s chief executive, said: “A whole generation of children risk growing up surrounded by this constant stress and anxiety. This cannot go on.”



https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/15/private-renting-making-millions-sick-england-poll

“Our results show how much climate change can affect young people,” said Prof Majid Ezzati of Imperial College London. “We need to respond to this threat with better preparedness in terms of emergency services, social support and health warnings.”



Injury deaths were expected to increase in all nations as temperatures rose, he said, although local factors would influence the extent of the increase – for example, the standard of road safety or level of gun control. The world is currently on track for a 3-4C temperature rise, suggesting the increase in injury deaths could be even higher.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/13/climate-crisis-likely-to-increase-violent-deaths-of-young-people-report